Re: Cork senior football team 2022

by bittergaaman Tue Jul 04, 2023 11:33 pm

luasaigh wrote:
bittergaaman wrote:Cork more than any other team are over reliant on fisting the ball over the bar. It's feels idiotic for me to write this, but we need to enhance the skill of kicking across the county. I don't know, ban teaching the hand pass and hand fisted point until minor level?
I mean as a "skill" I'm sure it could be left till much later in their development.

Our lack of ball kickers in a sport called football is alarming

I've been ridiculed over yonder for suggesting this before, so I'll risk it here this time.... :-)

A lot of it is that so many players are not adequately confident on both sides. So the kicking opportunities are halved - and more than halved when your marker knows he can just focus on your better side.

The best way to encourage trying something is to increase the reward for it. I believe in underage (up to and including u15 anyway) in Cork we should double the reward for any score scored by a player from one foot if the same player had previously scored with the other foot. Yes, it would significantly increase the burden on refs (would have to record number of player who scored and the foot they scored with, and would have to then note and signal the double score), and there would be mistakes and disputes - but it'd be worth it. Imagine the 12 year old going home telling his parent that he got two points at the end of the match to win it (players keep score anyway) 'cos he kicked it over with his left. Team practice, and individual practice at home, with the weaker foot would get much more focus.

I like this and I love out of the box thinking. The problem is for people who innovate, first people laugh at you before they agree with you... Find for the most part people are too scared to change what they know.

I honestly believe banning the hand pass at juvenile level can only nurture better kickers

by Ranty Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:33 am

bittergaaman wrote:
luasaigh wrote:
bittergaaman wrote:Cork more than any other team are over reliant on fisting the ball over the bar. It's feels idiotic for me to write this, but we need to enhance the skill of kicking across the county. I don't know, ban teaching the hand pass and hand fisted point until minor level?
I mean as a "skill" I'm sure it could be left till much later in their development.

Our lack of ball kickers in a sport called football is alarming

I've been ridiculed over yonder for suggesting this before, so I'll risk it here this time.... :-)

A lot of it is that so many players are not adequately confident on both sides. So the kicking opportunities are halved - and more than halved when your marker knows he can just focus on your better side.

The best way to encourage trying something is to increase the reward for it. I believe in underage (up to and including u15 anyway) in Cork we should double the reward for any score scored by a player from one foot if the same player had previously scored with the other foot. Yes, it would significantly increase the burden on refs (would have to record number of player who scored and the foot they scored with, and would have to then note and signal the double score), and there would be mistakes and disputes - but it'd be worth it. Imagine the 12 year old going home telling his parent that he got two points at the end of the match to win it (players keep score anyway) 'cos he kicked it over with his left. Team practice, and individual practice at home, with the weaker foot would get much more focus.

I like this and I love out of the box thinking. The problem is for people who innovate, first people laugh at you before they agree with you... Find for the most part people are too scared to change what they know.

I honestly believe banning the hand pass at juvenile level can only nurture better kickers

If I had my way it would be banned at all levels. Cork scored 1-8 last Sunday with 1-2 coming from hand ball by Deane, Maguire and O Donovan. Could hardly call that football.

by luasaigh Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:57 am

T. Leaf wrote:

Back in the day, when I was learning hurling, myself, it's what I did. Because of where we lived out in the country, at the time it wasn't practical to join any town club when we were children, so we taught ourselves, my brother, sisters and I. I wanted to be able to hit the ball as well with my left as with my right, so I adopted this method. I couldn’t put much power into my shots at first, but gradually they strengthened, until in the end it was all the one. I mention this to show that I know it works.

Definitely that works. But circumstances are different these days:
(a) Families are smaller, so there are less brothers and sisters to play with. Each child in a 2-child family for example has 50% less sibling playmates than a child in a 3-child family.
(b) A significant portion of boys have non-Irish immigrant parents who know nothing about the game, don't take the boys to watch local club games where they see the games played.
(c) No longer does the TV in the living room supply a restricted media into the house for shared family viewing where they would see whatever GAA intercounty games there are on TV. These days each parent and often each child consume different media on their devices - less likely to be GAA.
(d) Boys have so much other things to be doing (not least being on damn phones) that they require much motivation to practice and persevere the way you did back then.

So so many boys don't touch a ball other than in organized training and games.

So my suggestion - which certainly has the ref-burden flaw in it - is just one idea to add a bit of motivation so that boys see practice of trying things at home against a wall as something they want to do rather than it being sort of seen as homework.

by luasaigh Wed Jul 05, 2023 10:11 am

bittergaaman wrote:
I honestly believe banning the hand pass at juvenile level can only nurture better kickers

Certainly this is much more feasible to referee than the suggestion I made. Albeit the ideas are not mutually exclusive either.

One of my concerns about restricting the options available to the boy in possession (so that he does not do what we'd rather him not do) as compared to rewarding the boy in possession (for doing something we'd rather him do), is the case of the weaker boy who needs the most options available to him so that he can at least participate and belong (all he may be able to do is handpass it back to a more skilled teammate) - that said, he could drop it and kick it along the ground, so I think your idea might be worth trying alright.

by Ranty Wed Jul 05, 2023 2:07 pm

Isn't this question all a matter of interest and value.
Why should the majority of boys be interested in a game with weird rules that change from year to year and subject to the whims of a referee who is unlikely to know all the rules anyway.
The 'value' question is probably more important in relation to football in Cork. How many of the current senior team have sponsored motor cars?
Across the border most of them are driving top of the range SUVs and have deity stature where ever they go within the county.

by caughtforpace Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:35 pm

Didn't think it was too bad on the day but it was dire watching back on the box.
We're after a good year considering where we were 24 months ago in Killarney.
We're minimum 3 players short of the top table.
A left footed half forward and a pacey inside shooter are top priority.
Great to see Corbett prove me wrong and come of age. He can prance all day as long as he performs like that.
The key to next year will be ruthlessness in culling players who are not up to it at this level.
I have good time for Mc Sweeney but his lack of pace and was badly exposed on Sunday. If you watch the Derry goal he had 3 opportunities to cover the Derry overlap but just couldn't naturally cover the ground. You can't fault his attitude but his scoring contribution does not outweigh this glaring deficit in his game. John O Rourke's woefull miss to the near post with 2 players waiting around the square summed up his level. Brian O Driscoll is borderline but really needs to bring some added composure to his game when in possession. A few others in the squad who would have broken through by now if they were good enough need to make way for some new blood.
A serious effort needs to be made to get Brian Hayes and the Cahalanes on board.

by Ranty Wed Jul 05, 2023 9:00 pm

caughtforpace wrote:Didn't think it was too bad on the day but it was dire watching back on the box.
We're after a good year considering where we were 24 months ago in Killarney.
We're minimum 3 players short of the top table.
A left footed half forward and a pacey inside shooter are top priority.
Great to see Corbett prove me wrong and come of age. He can prance all day as long as he performs like that.
The key to next year will be ruthlessness in culling players who are not up to it at this level.
I have good time for Mc Sweeney but his lack of pace and was badly exposed on Sunday. If you watch the Derry goal he had 3 opportunities to cover the Derry overlap but just couldn't naturally cover the ground. You can't fault his attitude but his scoring contribution does not outweigh this glaring deficit in his game. John O Rourke's woefull miss to the near post with 2 players waiting around the square summed up his level. Brian O Driscoll is borderline but really needs to bring some added composure to his game when in possession. A few others in the squad who would have broken through by now if they were good enough need to make way for some new blood.
A serious effort needs to be made to get Brian Hayes and the Cahalanes on board.

Jack maby, but he needs to grow.
Hayes has made his choice.
You'd never know, the championship might throw up a decent leftie which is vital.
I'm sticking with Ryan O Donovan but he's not a half forward.

by YellowBib Thu Jul 06, 2023 1:35 pm

Surely Mark Cronin was worth bringing on last weekend ahead of JOR for example. You can question if he'll make it at IC but he was impressive in Sigerson. I hope Cashman, Merritt and Blake Murphy get some more chances in the league next year

by fullcourtpress Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:48 pm

Would agree with the verdict that we're three players in the 'very good' to 'top class' category away from really challenging. You could say the same of at least five other counties I'd say but given Cork's pick (no matter how many caveats come with it) there is more of a chance for Cork to unearth these players than the likes of Monaghan, Derry, Roscommon, Armagh.

The three boys in the half forward this year were a fair improvement on what was there last year, but I don't think a team will ever win an all Ireland with three guys there who are primarily runners rather than ball players. However, guys who can combine both like Peter Cooke or Paudie Clifford for example are very hard to find. If Corbett bulks up a bit more (although he's hardly small either as is) I think he could slot in very well at centre forward, but you would prefer a guy of his accuracy and skill closer to goal. Hard to know where Fionn Herlihy is rated amongst everyone given he was almost always in the 26 but got maybe 20 mins of gametime all year? Blake Murphy is also a guy of about 6'1 who surely could fit into the half forward line with his physique but he probably suffers a bit too much from the same modern football problem Luke Connolly had of trying the spectacular and not valuing possession enough - for a half last year in the league against Galway he was brilliant and has hardly been seen since. Brian Hayes is another obvious one who got away in this line, but I wouldn't begrudge him because I'd rate him as a huge prospect hurling wise also and he'll have a better chance winning an all Ireland there.

A left footed free taker is surely another necessity for a realistic all Ireland contender and I can't recall Cork having one since Colm O'Neill retired. Mark Cronin might not be too rated by this management team given his lack of game time this year, unfortunately not the tallest either nor blessed with lightning pace. Ryan O'Donovan is a big prospect here also but he's very much in the rough diamond category and unfortunately given the modern game he would probably need fine tuning on when to shoot and when to hold.

Another midfielder is needed, not least to give the lads there now at least the occasional breather but also to challenge Ian Maguire as he pushes on. There's no obvious candidate here either, especially given how little Paul Walsh saw gametime. I'm presuming Shane Meritt was injured after the sigerson cup as he was hardly seen? Maybe Keelan Scannell or Alan Walsh could be brought in here but it's a position that takes a fair bit of inter county conditioning and tactical nous to get to grips with - only compare Colm O’Callaghan last year and this year.

A back with the skill set of someone like Tom O'Sullivan going forward would be very handy also but players like that don't grow on trees. It'll be interesting to see what the plan with Powter is - is a team playing with a specialist sweeper not limiting themselves too much offensively to run up the tallies needed to beat the big hitters? Or would management be tempted to try again at half back (but could his body manage the constant sprinting that position requires now?) Darragh Cashman will.airely get minutes next year, and Diarmuid Phelan is another guy I like the look of (and can play as well) but he seems quite injury prone.

Overall, it's good to only be talking about a few supposed missing pieces rather than talking about ripping it up and starting again. The reality however is that, under this current structure, you need top players in every position stepping up to beat probably five (if not more) D1/D2 teams. Its a structure that proved entertaining this year and has allowed teams to improve by finding their best players/system, but I get a feeling we'll see plenty of Dublin v Kerry finals due to it over the next few years as they can pace themselves into the whole thing in a way other counties can't.

by Ranty Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:21 am

Outstanding post Fullcourt

by Tipp Ex Fri Jul 07, 2023 8:45 am

Excellent FC
If we could unearth exactly what you said and find Powters best position (as he seems to be a horses for courses type player and cant settle in one position) then we wont be fair away.

We've too many players to be stuck where we are. Troll the county championship and im sure we'll find a player or two, especially in the forwards, unfortunately my football knowledge isnt as good as ye'res so cant throw any names at ye.

MF deffo need one more to give the two lads a breather. We also need to be able to kick the ball from the 35 over the bar off both feet preferably, we're loaded up with right footers, 2 names that spring to mind are Mark Cronin (too small?) and Damien Gore (injured all year?), Derry could do it, we were afraid to even try

by Sean Fri Jul 07, 2023 10:54 am

Great post FC and having started as a doubting Thomas a while back I am far more confident for next year. There have been undoubted improvements in particular with conditioning and defence and particular players like Tommy Walsh, Colm o’callaghan and Michael
Martin have improved massively.
Cleary was very honest after Saturday and outlined that promotion to division 1 was the priority and we can all agree on that one, however that means from January it will be flat to the mat for this squad, in thst regards the second priority must be to extend and improve the squad.
It is fairly head scratching to me at least the more of Cronin, Walsh and murphy didn’t get more game time, I understand cashman was injured for a period but he must be given a chance in games next year- we all know the half forward line must improve in terms of scoring and there are options Blake murphy an obvious one but they need time; as much time as others got.
None of the forward we brought on Saturday made any impact and certainly in mcsweeney case he was clearly targeted by Derry for pace, o’rourke has been some soldier but you would hope we have other options next tear. Jones is interesting he has great movement and good attitude but his finishing is awful, way way below standard at this level despite getting more game time then a host of others, can it get up to the next level?
We are going to have some competition for the backs with flahive, cashman, fahy, Meehan and hopefully liam o’donovan entering the discussion in 2024, is there one of those that could be refashioned as a wing forward? A few of those lads and the likes of Rory Maguire are all well able to kick a score
There’s a few more already mentioned in particular for the inside line, as for Corbett he showed enough to me on Sunday to say he could play wherever you want him to and do damage,

by caughtforpace Mon Aug 21, 2023 6:28 am

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/corks-liam-oconnell-the-latest-promising-footballer-to-make-move-down-under-to-st-kilda/a2064816869.html

Spotted him in last year's senior semi v Nemo. His athleticism and effortless movement stood out a mile. Fuckit anyway.

by Tipp Ex Tue Sep 05, 2023 8:37 pm

Talks of Conor Corbett going over forva few weeks trial in Aussie Rules soon. He's been tracked with the last few years

by Podsy Tue Sep 12, 2023 9:20 am

Kevin Walsh to remain as Cork football coach

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41220343.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

by Ranty Tue Sep 12, 2023 2:16 pm

I have a problem with non natives getting paid to show Corkmen how to play any goddamn ball game.
Surely to Christ there is somebody equally competent or even better than Walsh withing our own huge county?
It's not like Walsh has a CV like Pep or Klopp.
I expect somebody here will point me towards our improved results in 2023 but that doesn't entirely convince me that one of our own wouldn't have done as good or perhaps better.
Don't ask me to name somebody as I'm a long way from home but do follow our football prowess closely.
Here's wishing Cleary and Co. success in 2024 and having watched a number of games in all grades over the weekend on Rebelsonline
my guess is if Neil O Sullivan Adrigole and Jack Cahalane the Haven lived in Kerry, Jack O Connor would come calling. Also Buckley Newcestown and Cronin Nemo appear to be holding their hands up for the attention of Cleary.

by Tipp Ex Tue Sep 12, 2023 10:19 pm

Yerra I've no problem with him getting paid. How much would he be on now anyway?

by Ranty Wed Sep 13, 2023 5:08 pm

Tipp Ex wrote:Yerra I've no problem with him getting paid. How much would he be on now anyway?

The pay bit isn't the problem but where it's going is.
I'm saying we surely have somebody of our own if we go down that road.
I don't like that road either BTW except for mileage and meals etc.

by fullcourtpress Fri Sep 29, 2023 10:00 am

Rory Maguire the only Cork all star nomination. Think Colm O’Callaghan can count himself a bit unlucky, as can Tommy Walsh for not getting a nomination for young footballer of the year.

by Tipp Ex Fri Sep 29, 2023 12:29 pm

A bit silly. Mayo got more than Cork ffs

by Tipp Ex Sat Oct 21, 2023 8:10 pm

Kerry V Clare in next year's Munster final after the draws today.

What draw says you? The Inter provincial draws were held today but nobody cares cause all that's on the telly is the rugby and soccer snd the GAA couldn't be bothered to promote it properly. Twas almost held in secret.

For the record Cork play Limerick in the quarter final with Kerry awaiting in the semi final.

Therefore Cork need a big league performance to get to the bSam Maguire stage

by Ranty Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:48 pm

Tipp Ex wrote:Kerry V Clare in next year's Munster final after the draws today.

What draw says you? The Inter provincial draws were held today but nobody cares cause all that's on the telly is the rugby and soccer snd the GAA couldn't be bothered to promote it properly. Twas almost held in secret.

For the record Cork play Limerick in the quarter final with Kerry awaiting in the semi final.

Therefore Cork need a big league performance to get to the bSam Maguire stage

The wheel keeps turning Tipp and our day is fast approaching. The GAA is archaic in almost
all it's activities, and don't expect anything to change soon anyway.
Perhaps this new body of brains between ex players and ex managers will come up with a new
dawn, but don't hold your breath.
Big bodies move slowly and some big bodies don't move at all.

by Tipp Ex Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:06 pm

Took this from PROC. Next year's league fixtures. Cork will probably win the contest for most travelling in the entire league id say. All the other counties lie in the North of the country. I'd guess Kildare is our closest "neighbour"

4 away games
Jan 28th v Donegal
Feb 4th v louth
28th v Fermanagh
17th March v Meath

3 home games
February 18th v Cavan
March 3rd v Kildare
March 24th v Armagh

by Tipp Ex Fri Nov 03, 2023 3:27 pm

Would ya do it? No harm i suppose

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-41260951.html

by Ranty Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:49 pm

https://www.southernstar.ie/sport/mike-haulie-oneill-to-be-inducted-into-west-cork-sports-star-hall-of-fame-4240913

Does any GAA historian passing through here know if Haulie O Neill ever donned the Cork football jersey?
If yes, when ?

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